Court financial proceedings opened

Hi, the ex has opened financial proceeding.
Marriage still not dissolved.
I offered 80/ 20 split of home in my favour.
Clean break. She keeps her pension. ( 10k )
She earns £55k per year, i earn 32k as a sole trader
I have huge debts from marriage.

She moved out of home 18 months ago. One year into buying the home she left.
I am now in a new relationship with my current GF and have a 4 month old child living with me. Both mother and child dependent on me.
Does the court take this into account?
Do i need to make them aware of child considering its not from the marriage?
Many thanks

There is too much information missing in order to be able to give a meaningful answer. For instance, how long you and your wife have been married and how long you have been together. How much the house is worth, what the oustanding mortgage is, whether it is in joint names, when you bought it. What the debts are, for how much, in whose name(s) they are and the reason the debts were incurred. There may be other missing relevant information but based on your post these are the obvious omissions. You may or may not want to provide this information on a public forum.

As to the question of whether your responsibilities to your current GF and her child are taken into account the answer is broadly no. That is because you entered into this relationship while fully aware that your possible responsibilities to your wife were yet to be resolved. Whoever should be predjudiced by your decision it should not be your wife. It would be different if, say, your circumstances had changed as a result of some sort of involuntary action such as being run over by a bus but this is not that type of situation.

It is not entirely clear whether your GF's child is yours. If it is not then the child is completely irrelevant as between you and your wife. It is your child then you would have a legally enforceable obligation to maintain that child and to that extent such a call upon your income may be relevant.

Apologies, the child is mine. Spitting image of her father and on birth certificate.
I am financially responsibly including keeping a roof over my daughter head.
Although i understand it should not have no bearing on my ex, it does not mean one needs to put their life on pause . I could not turn around and tell the baby while in her mother’s womb, give me a couple years till i get divorced.

The home was a former council property bought under RTB. Tenancy in my name
Home bought ( no deposit was paid ) in December 2021.
She up and left in January 2023. Approx.
She paid no deposit.
She seeks 50% equity after council exception period.

Although it is true that no-one needs to put their life on pause there is the separate issue of whether it is sensible to father a child by another woman while stlll married and before the financial issues arising from the marriage have been resolved.

Be that as it may, the child is yours and so you have a legally enforceable obligation towards that child which would be taken into account. Whether that matters much in these circumstances is doubtful because your ex seems to earn significantly more than you do so I doubt that maintenance payments are likely to be an issue. (Which is where calls upon your income would have been relevant).

You seem to agree that your ex is entitled to some share of the equity in the property. (It was the joint matrimonial home after all). The issue seems to be whether that should be 20% of the equity (your proposal) or 50% (hers). There is no indication of what these percentages actually amount to in hard cash but if this is indeed the issue it may well be possible to reach some sort of compromise. And that may better for both of you it is possible otherwise money that could have been divided between you will be divided between lawyers. Possibly mediation may help if you are unable to negotiate directly with your wife.

Take away the council discount repayment, 2.5 half years left till out of exception period and i believe if courts order sale of home discount does not need to be repaid.
Approx 110-120k equity.
Married for 7 years.
Wife has moved up from 35k to 55k per year last few years so her ceiling for earning is a lot higher than mine.
So i offered her 20% of 120,000. Paid once council exception period ends.
She wants 30k lump sum now. ( which i don’t have ) plus 10k per year. Total amount £60k
She keeps her 10k pension. Small amount yes i know.

Ideally speaking but correct me if im wrong. Wife left one year after home was bought.
Now with the below info. If house was sold when she left. We would have to repay back 80% of discount. Leaving us with 20% of equity.
Leaving her with half of the 20% equity.

‘You’ll have to pay back some or all of the discount you got if you sell your Right to Buy home within 5 years of buying it.

You’ll have to pay back all of the discount if you sell within the first year. After that, the total amount you pay back reduces to:

80% of the discount in the second year
60% of the discount in the third year
40% of the discount in the fourth year
20% of the discount in the fifth year
The amount you pay back depends on the value of your home when you sell it.’


She seeks full 50% after 5 year period, so she seeks equity further down the line. Not as of today.

I have received notice of first appointment, i am a LIP
It it correct i have to prepare MIP ( how much i can i borrow ) and 3 suitable accommodations?
And suitable accommodation for the wife ?


When is the point we exchange questionnaire’s in respect of form E.
before the first court date ?

Well, I don't think your wife is entitled to 50% of the net equity as the position would be at some point in the future. The high water mark of any claim she has is 50% of the equity if the house was sold now. And whether she is entitled to that is debateable. It is true that the starting point for the division of matrimonial assets is 50/50 (at least in marriages of a reasonable length as this is). However, that is not set in stone and the exact division very much depends upon circumstances such as needs, financial resources, the needs of any children etc.

In this case your wife earns more than you do, she left the property relatively soon after it was bought and you do not seem to have any dependent children together. By definition when your wife left she found somewhere else to live and you have limited cash raising potential. Bearing in mind that you have a dependent child who lives in the property, that you are the one who has been paying for it since your wife left, that the amount of equit involved is really quite modest and that your wife lives elsewhere I think it would be surprising if a court thought it appropriate that the property should be sold just to give your wife half of whatever equity would result from that. I doubt that she is entitled to or would get half of the equity. I may be wrong about that but I think 50% of the equity of the house if it was sold now is the high water mark of her claim and I doubt that should would get it.

Normally when you receive notice of a first appointment you also get a copy of the directions which should be complied with before that appointment. I note what you say about being a LIP but to make sure you are not wasting your time and for advice upon which you can properly rely you should at least consult a solicitor once before this goes too far.

Hi David, i did have a solicitor in which he cost me close to 4k for a few emails. He advised me to pay her half of the house and don’t fight.
When i realised im paying them to write emails so i got rid. However if it seems to be going to far i will be looking into getting a direct access barrister, considering my case is small kettle fish compared to some. Does it justify me spending ( £20k in legal fees to fight for 120,000 total house ‘equity’

Taking all into account david, her salary ,her taking an extra 10k from saving,rolex watch worth £8,9k , my needs and circumstances. What she seeks for. 50%equity down the line.
Is me offering 80/20 in my favour on the equity after exception period fair ?
Also i offered each party keeps their own debt.
She keeps her pension ( close to 10k)

And what im offering is not fair, what would the court likely order in my case ?

Many thanks

>>Does it justify me spending ( £20k in legal fees to fight for 120,000 total house ‘equity’

You have the calculation wrong. Your wife wants 60,000. You are prepared to offer her 24,000 (because you say you are proposing an 80/20 split. Therefore you are arguing over £36,000 (the difference between 60,000 and 24,000). Is it worth spending £20,000 to argue over £36,000 (which will end up being £16,000 and perhaps nothing once your legal costs and those of your wife are taken into account).

With no certainty what the outcome what the outcome will be maths like that would make most people pause.

As to £4,000 costs for a solicitor and charging for emails you have to remember that solicitors charge for their time and that time includes the time it takes to consider and reply to emails. You are largely in control of those costs. If you say, for example, that you want specific advice on X and nothing else then the cost of that should be quite modest (depending what X is, of course). You do not have to appoint a solicitor to act for you generally if in fact you only want specific advice.

Is what i am proposing fair in your opinion david ?
I have no idea how her legal team is advising her to go all the way then again i am sure it’s not the first time the courts have heard unreasonable claims .
I don’t think it would make sense if the courts ordered her
Legal cost to be taken from the pot but what do i know.
I just hope i don’t end up homeless and broke. I have no disposable income due to being 80k in debt. ( without mortgage)

>>Is what i am proposing fair in your opinion david ?

Since I do not have all the figures I am not going to hazard a guess. What I would say, though, is that it seems you have already had one solicitor's opinion. No doubt that solicitor gave reasons for the opinion. If you are not going to seek another opinion on the basis of all the figures you should at least reflect carefully upon the opinion you have already received.

You would assume that solicitor gave reasons.

Are you still practising david ?

Solicitors (and lawyers generally in the UK) do give reasons for their advice. That is because that is how the law in common law jurisdictions works - it is based upon reasoning which is always expressed so that it can be examined. It is such a fundamental part of the common law system that it is second nature for any lawyer trained in it to give reasons. Also, of course, a client can always ask the reason for any given advice and should almost certainly always do so when the advice is not what they want or expected to hear.

No, I no longer practise. I retired from practice towards the end of last year.

Hi Terry, regarding income on form e. Where i am a soletrader. My turnover and profit is different as expected.
All monies received go into my personal account .
I do my own tax return yearly.
No doubt the ex will question why turnover figures are different to what i claim as profit on my self assessment.
(Turnover-expenses= profit)
Am i liable to answer this and what is the courts view on this.

It is in your interest to demonstrate that your income is turnover less the expenses incurred in achieving that turnover and to provide chapter and verse by way of documentary evidence in order to show how the figure is arrived at. That is what income is, after all. Income is not the same as turnover. Form E wants your net income not your turnover (except to the extent that the latter is the base figure from which you eventually calculate the former).

Gathering everything for my first appointment.
Court asks to prepare a bundle indexed with hyperlinks. I was under the assumption the party with legal rep has to provide this ?

Also would the courts allow me to include additional documents with form E such as a brief summary, statement of issues and chronology ? Notice of what to provide from courts mentions nothing on these.
my old tenancy showing house was in my name before sharing right to buy with my wife, can include this with my form E ?

Many thanks
Julio

If your ex is legally represented and is the applicant then her lawyer should prepare the bundle for the use of the court and it should be agreed with you before it is submitted. If you want any documents included you should tell your ex's lawyer what those documents are so that they can be included in the bundle. If they refuse (because, for example, they say they are irrelevant' then it is open to you to argue at the First Appointment that they are relevant and should be included. If you do that you need to prepare a bundle of those documents in advance and give a copy to the other side and to the court. The court will then decide in due course whether they are relevant or not (assuming that each side disagrees about that).

I will prepare my own bundle.
And provide the extra documents with my form E,( such as tenancy in my sole name ) if the court thinks its irrelevant then so be it. I am sure they won’t penalise me for adding extra documents into my form e. Hopefully they a bit understanding of a LIP.
Form fm5 ,which i see is newly introduced. Am i right in thinking i have to explain to them why we could not agree out of court ? Explain the voluntary disclosure and provide evidence of emails back and forth?

Lastly david, how i do wish you was still practising. I would somehow find the funds to hire you. ( that’s if my case was worth your time, as mentioned previously small kettle of fish compared to some !

>>Am i right in thinking i have to explain to them why we could not agree out of court ? Explain the voluntary disclosure and provide evidence of emails back and forth?<<

Basically, yes, although if your wife is the applicant it will fall on her solicitor to explain why no agreement has been possible before you get your say. (Because the applicant opens the case). Also, the judge will soon get the point at issue and so mayl be unlikely to require a long explanation.

Hi terry, the courts emailed me some info via email and attached some paperwork such as STBEX mediation letter
[ ( not sure if that was a mistake )
On the mediation letter, it had her address, in which till this day i have no idea where she lives. On her voluntary form E she claimed to be living with family. Which is 50miles away from where i am.
The address on the mediation letter showed an address within 1 mile of the FMH. I believe it is an address of her friends, i know she does not live there and is simply using that address ( if in fact she will use it in her form E ) to show the courts ‘she’s camping on her friends sofa on £55k a year ‘
How can i prove she would be lying ? Could i ask to see payslips from separation. Cause if she conveniently changed her address details before applying to courts surely that would be looked into?

You will be entitled to see her payslips in due course (and she yours). Where she lives and will live post separation and how that is funded is also relevant and you may raise appropriate questions about it.

Morning terry,
Our Date to exchange form e to courts and eachother is 27th this month. Ex solicitor is yet to make contact for exchange.
Im due to post mine to court tomorrow.
Is there any tactics solicitors tend to use i need to be made aware off.
To me it sounds like they waiting to see if i would post mine quick enough to courts and perhaps they can see mine on the portal before the exchange ?

The time specified by court orders (unless specifically different) applies to each party independently so if a court directs that Form E be filed with the court by a certain date A should do that even though B might not. Exchange is slightly different in that it is always sensible to agree a day for exchange with the other side and not to do until there is such agreement. On the other hand, if nothing has been received beforre, say, a week before the relevant court appointment it is better to send the document to the other side regardless. In that way you cannot be criticised by the court and it the problem of the other side how they deal with such possible criticism (and the costs consequences that may flow from that).

Can the solicitors access my form on the portal after i have sent it to the courts and they upload it ?

The portal is open to both sides.

Personally i find it unfair and can’t be right. A LIP can not access the portal. Only
Professionals .
So in my case where, where i comply with the courts direction and hand over my form E on time to court.
Otherside that has legal representation delays exchange i have emailed them twice and seems like there are tactically delaying.
They view my form E on portal.
Essentially having the upper hand.
How is this fair ?! Or am i overanalysing it.

And if true people hardly get penalised from the courts for this sort of crap.

>>They view my form E on portal.
Essentially having the upper hand.<<

Well, hardly. You have the obligation to disclose your financial circumstances as your wife has an obligation to disclose hers. It is difficult to see how the financial position of either of you changes simply because one sees the other's form first.

Update, form e been exchanged.
Ex claiming from July 2024 she is will be unemployed from her 50k salary job.
Am i allowed to ask in my questionaire, for a letter from her employer stating the reason for her sudden unemployment ?
I know she’s chosen has moved to canada, according to her linkedin and what others have told me.
No way of proving this however.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2024 02:54PM by Xh.p.

>>Am i allowed to ask in my questionaire, for a letter from her employer stating the reason for her sudden unemployment ?

You are certainly entitled to ask for evidence that the change in your ex's emplyment status is involuntary on her part, yes. In a way it doesn't matter much because what matters is earning capacity rather than earnings and your ex has already proved she has an earning capcity of 50k. On the other hand, if it can be shown that she has deliberately chosen to give up her job that would be damaging to her credibility.

Hi david,
Received questionnaire, first hearing fast approaching. Many contradicting lies in her questions/ in relation to their voluntary questionnaire makes me wonder in what packet of crisp did she find her solicitor in.
She has requested 3 years of tax returns.
Im a fairly modest in earning sole trader, electrician.
Is it not silly to ask for 3 years?

Lastly im assuming in first hearing judge makes a direction which questions we are to answer ?

>>Lastly im assuming in first hearing judge makes a direction which questions we are to answer ?

Correct. You will tell the judge you object to supplying three years' worth of returns and your ex will then have to justify why she says it is necessary. The judge will then decide. You do need to object to any questions which you think cannot be reasonably justified or which you say are disproportionate. The judge will then decide. In general only the last year needs to be disclosed (in the interests of cost and relevance). Someone who seeks something beyoand that has to justify it (and occasionally such requests are justified). In principle a judge should pick these things out without being asked but you cannot be sure (because, for example, sometimes they are in a hurry) which is which it is wise to specifically draw a judge's attention to any questions to which you object.