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Fair buy out?

Posted by meplustwo 
Fair buy out?
March 12, 2021 06:59PM
Good Afternoon, please need some advice on how to reach a fair amount on a soon to start process of divorce.

Length of the marriage: 13 years
Kids: 9 and 3 years old. 50/50 with each parent.

Husband salary montly after taxes £3300 per month
Wife salary £900 per month
Expenses each will be around £2000 per month

Flat (mortgage on his name) average sale market price today £257500K (husband doesnt want to sell)
Mortgage paid so far (feb) £139100

Theres a loan husband took from parents when buying the house, no terms, £32000.

Husband Pension today £66000 (husband want to use pension sharing to sort this out). Wife wonder whats the best way to sort this out?

Liquid in accounts will be splitted equaly.

Previous advice suggested wife should get a consent order to ensure that even if she moves everything they agreed is there and also they said that court will probably dictate 60/40 of the capital plus spousal manteinance on wife favour. Wife cant afford lawyers or going to court really so both are trying to figure things out ourselves. Husband thinks 50/50 is fair. No maintenance. He will soon quit his job for work related issues but will probably find another one soon or before he does that.

Wife is looking for a better job and also will apply for benefits as per suggetion of CAB. Concerns about the buy out amount will affect this benefits? Concerns about wether she can get that money as a deposit to pay for a house, but bank already refuse to speak further until she doesnt earn at least double of actual. Is there any way in this country a low income can rent or buy a house?

Much appreciate it.
W.
Re: Fair buy out?
March 13, 2021 10:53AM
If the flat is sold it is hard to see how the wife is going to be able to afford to buy a place for herself and the children with a share of the limited equity and an income which means she has a low mortgage capacity. It is much more likely that she gets to stay in the flat with the children and that it is only sold at some time in the future when the children have ceased to be dependent.
Re: Fair buy out?
March 14, 2021 12:00AM
Hi David, thank you very much for your reply.

I am the applicant and I dont want to figth over who gets what , its very difficult to know whats fair, it seems that we are overstepping in each other rigths.
I can rent then, find another job, that will happen anyway hopefully, obviosly go from low income to 50+ per year wont happen .... yet.

If I wear to negociate an amount, what do you suggest I should consider?

This info is really helpful.
Thanks a lot.
W.
Re: Fair buy out?
March 14, 2021 09:21AM
The high water mark of your claim is 50% and the courts start from the presumption that there will be an equal division unless there is good reason why not. In fact there is good reason why not in this case which is that the wife earns much less than the husband, she has the care of dependent children and there is limited equity. If you want to start negotiations somewhere you could start at 50% but in this case I would expect the wife to get rather more.
Re: Fair buy out?
March 14, 2021 11:07AM
thank you for your reply.
W.
Re: Fair buy out?
March 15, 2021 12:17PM
Good Afternoon David,
I would really apreciate if you have a look at this numbers and tell me your views.
Thank you.
W.

FMH 257500 (average market price)
Mortgage paid (updated feb 21) 139100
Equity 118400

W can ask 60% of the equity 71040 ?

Instead of what husband expects which is to pay half of the equity less half of the loan from his parents I mention in my first post, leaving this in £ 43200 (to give to the wife)

He doesnt agree on pay spousal manteinance but there are pensions, it is a way to solve one with the other? Maybe if wife dont touch those pensions but get those £33000 in a lump sum? or Monthly?

Thank you so much.
Re: Fair buy out?
March 16, 2021 05:40PM
Frankly I don't think a court would order a sale of the property for reasons I have already explained. A court might also consider the 'loan' by your parents as much softer than a commercial. Looking at that 'loan' realistically if the property was sold and the 'loan' was paid off before division of the equity then when you bought another property your parents would no doubt advance you the 'loan' again. I suspect your wife will say the 'loan' was in fact a gift and who knows which way a court would categorise it without hearing evidence.
Re: Fair buy out?
March 17, 2021 09:01AM
Hi David, thank you for your reply.
I am the wife (W) writting all the time. My husband wants to keep the flat and I think I am ok with that because that will probably give our kids a sense of continuity (FMH). But I need to find out how to get a fair buy out/clean brake negotiation because as you said I suppose to be able to have same base, I will have to rent while I get a better job to increase my posibilities of a mortgage.
Yes definitely, I know that whenever he moves he will get another loan, never returning the first one.

In any case, I want to avoid the long, painful court way... I have spoken with CAB yesterday and they suggest mediation, also they told me not to ask benefits until my situation changes (move out I guess) and that I should be careful of the lump sum I am going to get because that will affect whether I will be entitle or no. Even in a get spousal mainteinance, thats hes opposed to consider, it will have to be certain amount if I am planning to rely on benefits at the beggining.

Thanks again.
W.
Re: Fair buy out?
March 17, 2021 11:02AM
I think you misunderstand. The likely outcome in this case is that a court transfers the flat into the wife's sole name with a charge for a percentage of its value in favour of the husband but he will not be able to realise that charge until the children cease to be dependent. You will be responsible for paying the mortgage which you will do from the child support and, if necessary, spousal maintenance which your husband will have to pay you.

Obviously your husband doesn't want to sell but that is because he (and apparently you) think that you will have to move out and that he gets to stay there. That is wrong. A court would not think it fair that your husband should live in a property which he owns whereas you have to rent somewhere for you and the children.

It is you and the children who should get to stay in the house not your husband because the needs of the children come first. There is simply not enough equity in this to enable you to buy a place of your own if the house was sold and because of your earnings you have limited equity. I don't know who put this notion that you should move out into your head but it is wrong.
Re: Fair buy out?
March 17, 2021 04:23PM
Thank you David.

Well, the notion totally comes from us, both, being ignorants of whats fair or not in a divorce. My ex think that because is me wanting the divorce I cant force him to sell or receive more than 50/50 (with no maintenance) in the little that we have. Anyway is not my intention to come after whatever doesnt correspond to me. Also, the kids will be/sleep/share equally with both parents, so I thought it doesnt matter who stays in the flat but making sure the other part have the same or similar space to receive the kids accordingly.

I was advised that if my ex wanted to buy me out I should probably negociate 60/40 of the capital (plus spousal m + pension sharing, etc) and thats why I asked you about numbers but I am afraid we will have to pay for mediation and try to negociate that way.

Thanks!!!
Re: Fair buy out?
March 17, 2021 06:03PM
>>Well, the notion totally comes from us, both, being ignorants of whats fair or not in a divorce. My ex think that because is me wanting the divorce I cant force him to sell or receive more than 50/50 (with no maintenance) in the little that we have. <<

I don't know how many times I have to say this but your husband is wrong and you are very unwise to agree with him. No court would think it fair that your husband gets to live in a place of his own while you have to rent. You are by far the weaker spouse financially and you have the care of dependent children. The figures scream out that you should remain in in the former matrimonial home with the children.

Mediation will not help while you have this mindset. Mediation is only interested in getting agreement. If you were to agree with your husband a mediator would not tell you that was unfair. What is important is how a court would approach this and I have already told you several times that what your husband (and apparently you) propose would not be regarded as fair by a court.

However, you are an adult and free to make your own mistakes.
Re: Fair buy out?
March 17, 2021 06:48PM
Thank you David. Good to know about mediation.... and your views.
It really helps.
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